00:00:07: Hello and welcome back dear listeners to the second episode of Reject & Resubmit.

00:00:13: Back with you on The Ones And Twoes.

00:00:15: today are

00:00:17: Philip

00:00:18: and Marco,

00:00:19: and myself Alexander this time broadcasting from

00:00:24: Poland

00:00:25: This Time With a Dog That Will Definitely Not Get Any Ideas About Loudly During Our Recording!

00:00:31: To honor our tradition in this podcast.

00:00:35: I want to start

00:00:36: off

00:00:36: the episode with a question as old-as time itself!

00:00:41: So, what are the favorite brands of Germans?

00:00:47: according Oh, that's

00:01:03: quite a lot to gain.

00:01:06: Mercedes Benz.

00:01:08: Mercedes-Benz?

00:01:09: Okay!

00:01:12: I swear you will blow my mind if you guess this one correctly.

00:01:17: You all know the brand.

00:01:19: What does it mean?

00:01:20: favorite

00:01:21: It is according.

00:01:22: of course The question would come

00:01:46: patriotic in good way.

00:01:48: However i go for apple.

00:01:50: actually

00:01:53: Wow none your brands are even on top ten.

00:01:56: What?

00:01:57: Yeah,

00:01:58: so what is in the top ten?

00:02:00: Kaufland?

00:02:04: No but it's I'll give you this much.

00:02:07: Aldi isn't a top-ten.

00:02:08: But it's already.

00:02:09: banger miss it dearly nice

00:02:11: place nine Place nine.

00:02:13: i tell you one that i'm sure he wouldn't have thought about being In The Top Ten on place three Is samsung.

00:02:21: yeah my wash machine is from samsung

00:02:26: But how come Samsung is in the top ten and not Apple?

00:02:30: Yeah, I don't

00:02:31: know.

00:02:31: And please should

00:02:35: tell you.

00:02:36: second place or do you want to give it another guess now that i've given you a few?

00:02:46: You

00:02:47: as Germans what are your favorite brands?

00:02:51: Apple Wow!

00:02:57: Place

00:02:57: five What the fuck are you like?

00:03:00: a forty five year old dad of four.

00:03:01: Before

00:03:04: before what?

00:03:05: Wash

00:03:08: washing machines

00:03:12: good nice.

00:03:15: No, thanks.

00:03:18: I'm pretty sure they make the list of most hated brands but

00:03:22: i'll

00:03:25: give it to you.

00:03:25: i swear to god.

00:03:27: I'm sure you wouldn't have, we could've done this for another ten minutes.

00:03:30: It's PayPal.

00:03:32: My favorite

00:03:34: brand

00:03:34: in Germany?

00:03:38: The question was brands to know... Maybe it just sounds nice

00:03:41: when you say it in German.

00:03:42: People!

00:03:43: That doesn't

00:03:45: sound

00:03:50: german.

00:03:50: Philip does not even have paper so i am not

00:03:53: sure.. I was one scammed By Elon Musk

00:03:58: himself.

00:04:00: Yes,

00:04:00: next time let's have a discussion.

00:04:02: how like who is funding you gov and whether this Is the best use of their resources.

00:04:09: Who's coming hot?

00:04:12: Hot.

00:04:12: next topic you got it handles blood where there are two that did.

00:04:18: um

00:04:20: lego is also under.

00:04:21: i'll post the link somewhere in there.

00:04:23: show notes amazon.

00:04:24: okay I will go back just because of people this what they tune-in for Amazon Aldi Adidas Nivea DHL Bosch Lego.

00:04:38: See, yeah.

00:04:44: Because everything else is just so terrible

00:04:46: that

00:04:46: you get.

00:04:47: it's like I don't know there's a name for that cycle Stockholm syndrome or something Samsung is three DMs to.

00:04:53: It was

00:04:54: great

00:04:55: and pretty awesome.

00:04:58: Yeah.

00:04:59: And PayPal

00:05:01: nice all

00:05:01: right with out of the way.

00:05:03: um Great episode guys thank

00:05:05: you so much.

00:05:08: I'm sorry.

00:05:09: No, now let's get into the actual meat of this juicy episode.

00:05:16: and who do we want to start with?

00:05:21: Do you wanna start on research topic or work or life itself?

00:05:31: I choose research.

00:05:34: All right.

00:05:35: Is it me?

00:05:43: Can I speak now please?

00:05:46: So talking about fun endeavors like lists, and i want to talk with you.

00:05:52: And the notion of doing research based on data and context that we are personally deeply interested in.

00:06:01: so for example looking at the development of synthesizer technology as an example of how innovation works or looking at cycling teams in order to understand our team's collaborate.

00:06:18: Or pretty much everything that Alex ever does

00:06:23: personally attack.

00:06:25: it was meant like this and so these kind of data sets I haven't done yet And to be honest, I'm also a bit careful.

00:06:34: But because I know Alex that can you maybe share how that feels for you?

00:06:40: Is there something that you always want to do and now feel like you reached the point or is it something where you sold your soul but don't even enjoy your own hobby anymore?

00:06:53: paper graveyard is filled with ideas and half started projects that i thought about with data.

00:07:01: That's fun or data related to fund things.

00:07:04: the thing is, like so many things you know the idea itself tends to be fun but then when u get into it at some point even found data turns in to really annoying shit.

00:07:14: data without all kinds of problems that make a research just the find out it is.

00:07:22: We're still like.

00:07:23: I just had a meeting today with my co-author working on the music data project.

00:07:29: And it's a pain, is getting the data and working with the data... ...is just a lot of work but if works out i think its amazing.

00:07:47: those things where you can really I don't know if i'd be looking back on a paper of organizational practices or pharma companies.

00:08:02: If i had access to company data there, some processes it would be cool papers for sure but that's something i'm really excited about.

00:08:16: where is all these other projects?

00:08:18: Those are subjects you can at least also talk about outside, even easier to talk about.

00:08:24: Outside of academic colleagues.

00:08:26: so that's the upside really we're doing by the way but I mean great listeners.

00:08:31: for time this will be out it'll over but were doing a PDW on exactly using entertainment industry as organizational research context.

00:08:42: So we'll see there's a lot, there's those gaming I've got like i'm in chat with people to look at prices of Magic the Gathering cards?

00:08:51: I wanted to do something on porn and it got scooped talking about things that I enjoyed doing.

00:09:02: I enjoy dealing here!

00:09:03: I love you guys most my free time which will be talking later And the music staff got a colleague that's looking at movie stuff, and he'll probably... I feel like it has similar experience.

00:09:16: It is some topic of great interest which you are passionate about.

00:09:20: but once you get into data and realize At some point just challenges for any kind of data turn out to be very similar.

00:09:31: But then with that on top of this The issue Fun, you know funny data in our field and management.

00:09:40: And business marketing anything icon is like it's.

00:09:48: I remember i pitched this idea for magic the gathering pricing data to my current boss here and he told me yeah That's like an amazing idea for the International Journal of Magic, The Gathering.

00:10:09: It was too ambitious for me so I didn't decide to pursue that.

00:10:17: but as soon you start talking about how does this inform?

00:10:25: management, human resources marketing something wider than the context of interest?

00:10:30: or how is this relevant to a group people beyond the ones that are?

00:10:35: you know deeply in this subject matter.

00:10:38: That's also then it's a bit of an art really I think.

00:10:42: like there's There's a few authors have managed Really?

00:10:46: You don't take these kinds of contexts and kind of data and really clearly see How to frame it and spin it but i'm certainly not one of them.

00:10:55: So, that's always has been and probably will be quite a big challenge.

00:10:59: using the data is kind of figuring out how this is informative to people beyond aficionados.

00:11:10: Will we see your Strava data recycled as paper Marco?

00:11:14: I would love too!

00:11:16: I guess i'd start off with rather unpopular take but Like every time I see one of these papers being published, i feel like it's more about the name rather than the data.

00:11:27: So you usually see

00:11:29: the title sport?

00:11:30: Yeah!

00:11:31: You could say that pretty much everything is said but from my case in OB for instance if people are publishing sports data they work at Harvard Business School Stanford and so on.

00:11:51: I basically never saw a paper published with that kind of data from regular academics, quote unquote.

00:12:00: Is this kind of misconception or is it confined to my field?

00:12:04: Or I don't know.

00:12:05: Alex please enlighten me so i can recycle my Strava Data.

00:12:14: Boy you might have a point.

00:12:19: I think the two perspectives that you had are actually deeply linked, right?

00:12:23: If your work with data because they find it interesting.

00:12:27: You have a problem.

00:12:28: but if you're extremely well-worsened in theoretical literature and questions open then can make case.

00:12:36: there's this question out here which is super interesting.

00:12:39: we cannot tackle really organizational data or look at from sports data perspective.

00:12:47: Then you have something, right?

00:12:49: But it's very hard to go the other way around.

00:12:51: You cannot say I've sports data.

00:12:53: what kind of question can answer with that?

00:12:55: I think that is challenging.

00:12:57: And this why we see, top names on these kinds of papers because those are the folks they can spin a story that informs their conversation and it's open or ongoing or unresolved for like ten-twenty years... ...and now there could bring in new perspective with an interesting data set!

00:13:13: These papers always frame to same you know?

00:13:15: It was just huge question We cannot tackle but we use super interesting dataset which has not been looked at since its sports day.

00:13:24: Haha guys got you but now.

00:13:26: You already read two pages and I will walk, you know through the sports data And i think this is how it needs to be done right?

00:13:33: We cannot really set up The hook with no one looked at magic cards before.

00:13:40: That's that's tough.

00:13:41: But saying like i don't know Magic Gathering has a super unique Market level criteria that is actually unique for how magic cards are traded.

00:13:54: I think that's an equal question.

00:13:55: Have no idea about markets and then you can use use magic cards as example for that, and then theorize back to market.

00:14:02: i think then you have interesting case.

00:14:05: yeah i think there are certain fields where this works easier than others?

00:14:09: I don't know nothing about ob but the link is very very... imagine a link has be clear to your organizations and organizational literature, whereas you know feels that say economics or marketing just in general like if there is sort of let's just take economics.

00:14:33: If we can make some kind of claim on like what Philip said around markets in general?

00:14:38: Or if he could make some kinda welfare implication then it's easier to use different context harder other ways off course.

00:14:51: But there I have a feeling it's where in management and organizational research, the challenge is what Philips said.

00:15:01: In Econ probably how can we learn about some new market mechanism?

00:15:11: It doesn't really matter if you look at context then think of stupid context or relevance.

00:15:17: You know, okay.

00:15:18: So how does this build on this nineteen eighty four paper that should have already explained everything situation?

00:15:27: I agree yeah but it's Yeah.

00:15:29: i mean the problem is and then i fully i'm fully in The latter camp that philip mentioned.

00:15:35: i always see cool data And look at cool data and only think about wait a second.

00:15:43: How am i going to Make this relevant for the actual audience of academic papers and management

00:15:51: nias,

00:15:56: which is difficult.

00:15:57: What would be a dream data set that do you have?

00:15:59: A dataset that you think could be super interesting to work with but your kind of afraid to touch it.

00:16:06: Yeah magic calculator.

00:16:07: I mean It's like daily granular pricing data.

00:16:15: I wonder where we

00:16:16: have four years

00:16:17: daily data for a market that changes every day.

00:16:26: For different asset classes, maybe.

00:16:27: Maybe a different risk portfolio?

00:16:29: Yeah I honestly don't know what

00:16:31: you're talking

00:16:32: about.

00:16:33: No!

00:16:33: I wonder as well... Honestly like i'm just as baffled as you are so... I wish anybody could answer that question.

00:16:42: but yeah it's massive data set.

00:16:48: It is not something I can open and look into But it will take an immense amount of work.

00:16:51: So thats why we haven´t really touched yet.

00:16:55: But yeah, that's there.

00:16:56: I have the data and i just haven't touched it yet because a lot of people are been with good reason warning me about you know wasting my time.

00:17:04: International journey for magic card is in decline?

00:17:09: Yeah no its got really high rejection rate so... It was very

00:17:14: busy!

00:17:16: I should study AI or something.

00:17:21: Marco, do you have a data set that they would like to look into?

00:17:27: Honestly no.

00:17:28: But over the last couple of weeks I really got into this... not the dataset itself because it's hard to get but data about cyclists as you teased earlier.

00:17:41: Because now more and more cycling teams are starting to hand out these tenured positions in a way Which is weird, right?

00:17:49: Because

00:17:50: it just works so well.

00:17:53: And

00:17:55: I guess similar to the tenure criteria within universities... ...I feel like would be interesting to see how this tenured positions affect their results in a way and there are super

00:18:08: times.

00:18:10: So however the sample size so far i think four.

00:18:16: Okay, that's

00:18:17: where I'm yet.

00:18:19: But obviously like every year they have this or every second year is a elite cyclist had his contract here.

00:18:27: so just like the year before you are on your that you're on the market.

00:18:31: So i think it would be interesting to see whether there is actually A difference in performance and as its very physical sport.

00:18:41: Yeah!

00:18:41: I don't know...I feel Like It's an Interesting Question To Look At.

00:18:45: But also as cyclists not only work, I mean it's all about the physics but your team and collaboration.

00:18:56: Also how collaborative in a way your fellow teammates are.

00:19:05: so if you're next to head-to-head Is the person sprinting or is he not sprinting and stuff like that.

00:19:14: So I think there would be quite a lot of questions you could answer with this data, but...

00:19:21: There are different strategies by the cycling teams and so on and so forth right?

00:19:25: Strategies yeah!

00:19:26: Yeah

00:19:27: i'm sure they'll be a nature subjournal out soon

00:19:30: for that.

00:19:32: For

00:19:34: cycling.

00:19:34: Nature cycling.

00:19:36: International Journal of Cycling Studies.

00:19:39: It's

00:19:40: a sister journal of Magic

00:19:42: the Gathering.

00:19:43: It may be published by Frontiers or something.

00:19:48: Frontiers in Magic The Gathering

00:19:52: and Cycling.

00:19:56: Philip, where would you publish your frontiers?

00:20:02: What I find super interesting is chess data.

00:20:05: I know it's also... Oh, God!

00:20:06: Sorry about that.

00:20:07: It's so

00:20:08: basic.

00:20:08: But this quite interesting because its isolated and you have AI affecting.

00:20:15: these people learn different moves.

00:20:19: You can see whether the players use technology of AI to improve their techniques how they improved or change game.

00:20:29: i think thats quite interesting But I know that also quite many people work on this, so it's not super duper novel.

00:20:38: And as i said... ...I don't have a question to answer with it but.. ..I love compact data and chess data is super compact So you only need very few rows to describe the entire game As we can look at enormous numbers of games played in quick time succession when you can get access to the entire universe.

00:21:04: Chess Universe?

00:21:07: Yeah, I do say it with a certain notion that i don't get.

00:21:14: The entire universe seems like...

00:21:16: There are more chess positions than particles in the universe so ...I think its not small.

00:21:22: But

00:21:23: there is no magic guards inside of the universe.

00:21:26: Yes!

00:21:30: You will find the answer in the frontiers and numbers.

00:21:36: Frontiers and Numbers go up, edition nine hundred four nice.

00:21:41: okay that leads us almost very nicely to the topic of free time already isn't it?

00:21:48: That's

00:21:48: a good point.

00:21:49: oh cool my iCloud monster update.

00:21:52: yeah keepers updates about

00:21:55: love the pop-up now Yes, so basically which is what I want to get into and it might be in line.

00:22:05: Basically are we as academic researchers allowed or supposed to switch off at some point?

00:22:15: Why am asking that question and this may have been something we talked about earlier is that i read somewhere on linkedin you know under the numerous complaints about working conditions in our field.

00:22:31: Someone had to be really insightful comment this is a labor of passion and basically if it's if u can't handle the heat then get back out of kitchen situation.

00:22:47: so yeah, What what do you think?

00:22:49: is it allowed are we allow to do anything apart from thinking about research and then how we can use.

00:22:57: Everything we see in touch for four for research,

00:23:00: uh what would switching off constitute?

00:23:03: so I wouldn't mean the switchoff will

00:23:07: take me basically to take a week to take weekends of not work Like treat.

00:23:13: this put it is way.

00:23:14: are we allowed to treat our job like a nine two five and maybe let's mean ninety-five in the sense of not necessarily exactly that way but I'll be allow to have.

00:23:22: You know work during week take time off in the evenings on the weekends or is just a job where you wear weekend.

00:23:31: now may be have a weekend every every few weeks and for lucky,

00:23:39: I will lose my higher ability in the US and thirty seconds.

00:23:43: And to tell you that i always take two weekends off, so if we define working as sitting on front of a computer and typing down something or coding writing whatever?

00:23:57: I do that during office hours.

00:24:01: Okay Marco yeah because I can see

00:24:04: our job slightly broader.

00:24:06: So um...I don't know Getting these student emails.

00:24:10: or I was asked to download this canvas and now they have a teacher app.

00:24:16: So, if people write me that message goes straight into my Canvas Teacher App which obviously

00:24:22: I

00:24:24: think he

00:24:24: froze.

00:24:28: I think it's canvas,

00:24:31: you

00:24:35: just got

00:24:39: five hundred canvases.

00:24:44: You've got a message for the students!

00:24:48: So

00:24:48: this means in the evening sit down and still work until like nine or eleven?

00:24:54: And then get up at nine and continue working.

00:24:57: No i feel terrible.

00:24:59: Yeah, sorry Marco you were gone after I burst out of tears and said obviously it's your job.

00:25:06: And then when we're going to repeat the last few sentences?

00:25:12: I had perfect phrases but now i go to the rather dull version of it.

00:25:17: But no yeah to go back Sorry.

00:25:23: So basically, there's this idea of passion exploitation in entrepreneurship but also an HR more and I feel like This is something that universities profit from And I think the structures are already also kind of tailored.

00:25:39: In a way you were more or less prone to exploit your own passion for research Because nobody was going to tell you hey i saw You published quite a lot recently.

00:25:52: At least I haven't heard that before.

00:26:00: Calm down man,

00:26:01: you're

00:26:02: becoming too smart and interesting.

00:26:04: Google

00:26:05: Scholar is basically heating up The rankings

00:26:07: of our university

00:26:09: only goes so

00:26:11: high We cannot accept more students and there's not many applications.

00:26:17: please stop But no.

00:26:19: So yeah, I feel like the incentive structure really fosters passion exploitation of exploiting one's own passion in a way.

00:26:28: having said that i'm very good at exploiting my own passions.

00:26:30: so while I think it is not worthwhile to switch off anyway because all of us have been in this spot where you try I have a bug in the code or whatever and then you stop working because, i don't know.

00:26:52: You're kicked out of your office?

00:26:54: Or...I guess there's a plethora reasons.

00:26:56: however next day you open up R or Python or whatever And you see it right from the beginning!

00:27:04: This downtime is super crucial for being productive.

00:27:07: Philip & I had an extensive talk about this couple weeks ago or every time we meet

00:27:15: A couple of years or weeks ago.

00:27:18: No, I think it's something we talk about...

00:27:20: It is a recurring theme!

00:27:21: Yeah

00:27:22: yeah okay But i think We should make it more acceptable.

00:27:30: if people switch off and be.. I Think we also should force ourselves to switch Off in a way too.

00:27:39: Also let the creative energies flow again which sounds like Something found in interviews, but I guess there's also some OB literature to back it up.

00:27:52: So...

00:27:53: I mean i find just like a tricky topic because they are people whose life is research right?

00:28:02: That's their hobby.

00:28:03: you know that what they enjoy doing for them this is switching off like being able to work on the research or be able to i don't know design courses whatever.

00:28:15: so it's like.

00:28:17: But at the same time and kind of makes the rest of us quote unquote look bad if you know there's one person that just really productive in outshining everybody else with their publications are just putting extreme amounts effort, Into into their teaching or whatever just because they love it.

00:28:36: And so it's like tricky, Because It's kind of a decision I feel Like you nearly can't even make on your own right without taking On unless You're prepared to like Make the sacrifice in A way.

00:28:50: but i think this is Kind Of a wrong conception.

00:28:53: yeah This all comes from The assumption that you always have To compare yourself against others Right and I Feel like there are a lot of matrices that make it super tangible.

00:29:04: However, you don't need to look at all these matrices and I have colleagues who has way less citations but a great AMJ publications as its hard actually read the AMJ article.

00:29:19: at times they're not cited well.

00:29:22: so like this matrices is super skewed.

00:29:27: sometimes also notice if i put in ten more extra hours in my teaching, it doesn't make twenty percent or that doesn't shift the needle.

00:29:35: In a way.

00:29:36: so I feel like we need to not stop comparing but do it realistic fashion also considering different starting points for instance are different strengths because if we as European scholars compares to US scholars We will always fail if it's not about teaching, right?

00:30:01: So in this regard... I mean and i'm talking more to myself than you guys.

00:30:08: Right now but I really think that is something.

00:30:13: yeah one needs to learn because there'll be a bigger fish in the rather small pond.

00:30:23: Yeah!

00:30:29: office hours, but that doesn't mean research is not my life.

00:30:34: I would very strongly say that research it's my passion and my life and core thing i do!

00:30:41: And also run or make music whatever it is... But this just a way of recharging to then do research yet again in the focused manner.. ...and working on project six years old And I reframed it again and have to stamina do so but only because i don't do that sixty eight hours a week.

00:31:00: I do it fifteen hours of weak and this allows me to collect the data yet again to extend the data set to reframe it read more, think about again to write down to get rejections and so on for four months from me.

00:31:13: personally i can only make research my life by not having its extent over let's say forty five hour a week.

00:31:21: I cannot do that and i believe very few people can actually.

00:31:27: And the research itself suffers because it becomes more narrow, niche or specialized.

00:31:34: but i don't want to be a scholar who is super in depth with one tiny thing... I want to have interesting thoughts and interesting conversations beyond the niche that i'm in.

00:32:09: Okay, I may be one more observation.

00:32:11: I mean ideally we would you can do this until the end of your lifespan right in practice?

00:32:19: This is not a case and at one point You will be retired or you are some people say even forced

00:32:26: to retire

00:32:33: Just approaching this career stage And they're not super happy about it.

00:32:39: And it then can be rather frustrating if you are, uh... If you notice that within your community.

00:32:47: You don't know anyone I mean with in your like rural community and this basically something.

00:32:53: um professor shared with me the other day That now he starts to needs to start a new network because his entire Network is attached research.

00:33:01: And I feel like this is also kind of a sad story you hear every now and then with consultants spending their entire time in consulting, working with the same people all over again.

00:33:12: They are forced to stick into job because there's social network attached to it.

00:33:17: We should be careful about our social networks.

00:33:20: Also make research more relevant as Philip said Because if we're spending all of that work discussing with other researchers, I guess we also lose touch with the real world.

00:33:33: quote unquote.

00:33:35: Yeah good points.

00:33:39: so you're allowed to play magic once in a while Alex?

00:33:42: Oh thank god.

00:33:44: just need to find a social

00:33:46: friend.

00:33:49: it's getting rather boring playing against myself

00:33:53: and

00:33:55: gets my dog now.

00:33:58: okay Yeah, good points.

00:34:05: I feel like the pressures are still there.

00:34:09: The one thing it's reaching a point where in certain positions you're being treated as if research has to be your free time activity.

00:34:24: There's like some phd there something you know, okay?

00:34:25: You should be.

00:34:26: you should be happy if you can do research and Like your job.

00:34:30: Your your forty hours are getting paid for is the other stuff And that seems to me At least in my as competition ramps up something That's also getting kind of shipped around.

00:34:44: Um, you need to do editorial work into teaching it too.

00:34:49: what have you?

00:34:49: and then if u have any hour left in the week or weekend, yeah sure.

00:34:55: You can work on your research because this should be something that you enjoy doing.

00:35:00: so it's something to do with free time which is a bit of development concerning as well but i don't want to over belabor.

00:35:14: Yeah, just one point quickly to add.

00:35:16: For me what at least allows me to largely remain in the office hours is that researches always top priority right?

00:35:27: Everything else I do very heavily weighted against can rather do research.

00:35:35: so... And yeah, during my PGA already taught a lot.

00:35:38: So I think i can do the teaching in an efficient manner without overloading with too much and every other thing that you can do at university is weighted against.

00:35:48: if your hours more of research?

00:35:51: Yeah maybe thats its tradeoff needs to be done.

00:35:55: Okay then lets move on.

00:35:59: That was alot fun!

00:36:00: A very fun topic.

00:36:05: Can't wait to totally take a break after this podcast.

00:36:11: Yeah, and remember instead of this podcast you could have done the bit off more research right?

00:36:17: This counts as work honestly.

00:36:19: Discounts is free time it's after six.

00:36:23: Anything that not magic isn't fun!

00:36:29: So the final topic of today goes to Marco.

00:36:34: Make it quick?

00:36:35: No, take your time!

00:36:37: It's a very light hearted and easy-to-discuss topic.

00:36:42: so I'll try to make it quick in a way.

00:36:45: Yeah i think that fits nicely into our topics we discussed before because on the other day We had a rather famous scholar from the US here.

00:36:59: We had a chat and then PhD student asked them her for advice.

00:37:05: And she was like, the best advice I can give you is that people should always do postdocs to relax from stress as a PhD student or reorient yourself because very much tied with your chair department.

00:37:27: Also to build a portfolio and.

00:37:30: To kind of release the pressure from the tenure clock by establishing proper pipeline, why she said that I almost suffered a heart attack.

00:37:42: yeah i did not go for this postdoc position.

00:37:45: so was wondering now having both of you here both Alex and you Philip who kinda skip the postdoc and Alex or whose about to finish his postdoc Do people need to do a postdoc?

00:38:00: Yeah,

00:38:04: so I think that there are few elements.

00:38:07: That needs to be considered especially if we look at from the US perspective and this is that I did an extremely long PhD of six years with teaching included.

00:38:16: So for in many let's say us scholar careers This would have been longer than three year Phd and two-year postdoc.

00:38:27: And the second thing is what we discussed last time, like doing a postdoc means moving.

00:38:33: I have a girlfriend who moved with me and i could only get her buy-in by being able to tell her that she will stay there for longer than two years!

00:38:42: That was then little bit... The question can find an assistant professor?

00:38:46: That allows me do so.

00:38:48: So thats why it's pushed here.

00:38:50: When would've been single..I think I'd gone for a Postdoc especially at the top institution again, to get an opportunity... ...to do everything that you just said.

00:39:03: Because I think there is a lot of value in it.

00:39:05: but we also need to consider where are and am very happy with my left PhD role right?

00:39:10: I was kinder done as student And i'm very happy now that i'm an assistant professor.. ..and can do my work this way for me.

00:39:24: So yeah, that would be my answer.

00:39:27: Generally I agree but there are contingency factors made in my situation different.

00:39:35: Alex was it the right thing to do?

00:39:38: Yeah!

00:39:40: I mean... I'm like Philip by did it right and got divorced from time for postdocs.

00:39:48: so i didn't have deal with this issue.

00:39:52: And other than that...

00:39:54: What was first?

00:39:55: I have a causality question.

00:40:00: That'll be for the next podcast.

00:40:04: The, totally-I needed the postdoc for sure

00:40:10: and

00:40:11: i would've even liked to do it's uh little bit longer and i think anybody who does a postdoc will feel like is too short.

00:40:18: Um, I doubt there's anybody that had a postdoc.

00:40:21: That felt like.

00:40:22: you know who have had enough time now?

00:40:25: Maybe wrong but it was if i don't regret it at all It was tough and stressful wasn't at all relaxing um But yeah sure the nice thing really is this feeling of oh all of sudden Like I can pursue you know projects that are not determined by my phd.

00:40:49: But it was also the scary thing.

00:40:51: i was like oh shit, Lead back.

00:40:58: I can't trust that.

00:40:59: or no, i cant always run to my doctor supervisor and say like is this good?

00:41:03: Is it's going enough.

00:41:05: Is its gonna get me a PhD?

00:41:06: because at the point you are just saying hey!

00:41:10: You need to establish your network, pitch projects ,get them project.

00:41:15: It was also scary but yeah... I don't know.. Honestly.... I wonder for how many PhDs is even actually still a realistic option to not do postdoc before getting an assistant professor position.

00:41:33: it's getting.

00:41:35: It's getting pretty hard now, even from me coming out of the postdoc was extremely difficult to find a position because its people.

00:41:44: you're competing with PhD which can be with postdoc competing with assistant professors that are changing laterally.

00:41:52: so Yeah, I mean if you want more options and a little bit of time to just find yourself then postdoc is really something good.

00:42:03: If it's really a postdoc because there are sham postdocs out as well right?

00:42:07: We know institutions in countries where... It says Postdoc on the package but that means we need help in administrative grant writing teaching and will pay you about five euros more per month than it got as a PhD, but really in the same situation before.

00:42:36: Marco are you going back?

00:42:38: Are you gonna do postdoc Marco?

00:42:42: Yeah I hope not.

00:42:43: no!

00:42:44: But also reiterating our last conversation Yeah, I mean you obviously have to fill in fairly big shoes and a rather short amount of time.

00:42:55: So like for me i basically moved to Amsterdam And yeah it was having a lecture on Thursday evening... ...and on Monday i was here as an assistant professor!

00:43:08: Not much changed other than now living in the small shitty apartment.

00:43:11: so It wasn't my imagination where i felt this kind Period in between would have been helpful.

00:43:22: So what the Australian scholars had really resonated with me, however obviously for social reasons I wouldn't suggest it anyway because like moving for two years and i hate to be honest seems super special While I was in a favorable position of not being attached to any place, at least sort-of emotionally but also as a partner.

00:43:54: It would have been an option and it's almost about pursuing options like that... ...but still i'm very happy now with some fairly long planning horizons.

00:44:07: so no moving back!

00:44:10: Well, I never saw the merits of doing a postdoc.

00:44:14: Now i feel like

00:44:16: it do also to what thing?

00:44:19: I wanted to also echo is like for Philip mean its really a pain.

00:44:22: It's not just like oh, I'll just do a post-doc that gets.

00:44:25: it was such a tough Like really because I also hate moving and i think i mean i don't know but i feel like it's just a different thing moving in europe than the u.s.

00:44:35: that people just you know get in a car put all their shit in and it's like they drive for twenty five hours and basically just change the neighborhood, um but in europe no you fall over twice and everybody speaking of different language and so its is like i dont know if this makes everything more complex

00:44:55: left union right.

00:44:57: yes

00:44:58: Wow, I mean

00:45:00: the rogue state of Switzerland.

00:45:05: And so that is really like.

00:45:07: you know it's not an easy because they're also moving with a clear knowledge that you will have to move soon again which was for me very stressful.

00:45:15: It was like...I'm going into transitionary thing and i basically think about where do go next before even arrive.

00:45:24: The second things though then I feel like if one does a postdoc at the same time, and i don't know If you have different opinions here is do not get tempted to get hooked into A postdoc where You are already.

00:45:41: I Feel Like That's Not The Point Of A Postdoc.

00:45:43: It Is Like If Your PhD Supervisor Or Someone Says Hey Why Don'T You Just Do A Post-doc Here?

00:45:53: I would

00:45:53: say

00:45:54: that Highly Depends On Where You Are And how you're put for your.

00:45:58: yeah, that's why I'm saying like this is just.

00:45:59: You know it might be colored by where i came from or what?

00:46:03: I heard but.

00:46:05: I don't know if he liked to fully utilize a phd Postdoc Like... I Don't know.

00:46:12: the different setting at different network different environment is conducive rather than just rolling over into Yeah

00:46:24: Most of that, because I mean

00:46:27: last week.

00:46:27: I was back in at my old institutions and institution effort like a PhD student again And to be honest i was treated Like

00:46:41: But you don't have To move right?

00:46:42: You guys complain for twenty minutes about moving and being off allows you to stay two more years without Moving.

00:46:50: yeah no but it's I don't know, it's a false kind of security.

00:46:59: It just feels like you're prolonging your PhD at that point.

00:47:02: Yeah and this is especially what i really did not want to.

00:47:07: yeah...I wanted to move into the next kind-of role

00:47:11: but all in all ...i did the right thing..you all did the wrong things.

00:47:17: You win we lose as usual.

00:47:22: ..i won I won the episode again.

00:47:27: But yeah, that's...I think?

00:47:31: I don't want to take control but does this bring us to end of our second episodes as per usual and a lot deep insights for our ad segment.

00:47:45: todays episode is brought you by dropshipping companies pretending to be designer brands on Instagram.

00:47:52: What's up with that?

00:47:55: That is all I got.

00:47:58: Isn't it,

00:47:59: guys?!

00:48:00: No no what's up...

00:48:02: What is dropshipping?

00:48:04: That was the moment when i felt old actually because students explained to me Because one student of mine wants to write a Bachelor thesis on Dropshipping and he said like.. What the

00:48:12: hell?

00:48:13: Guys sorry!

00:48:14: It looks

00:48:18: like

00:48:18: a bogus company.

00:48:20: basically Don't you edit this to buy things and ship it?

00:48:25: To someone else.

00:48:26: So if I off yeah, I don't know.

00:48:29: fans You see now Yeah that you can carry around with you or like all the ridiculous stuff there.

00:48:36: people said to you ah Markets and stuff but this is kind of scaled up.

00:48:43: so like

00:48:45: oh no

00:48:46: It's vibe entrepreneurship, you know.

00:48:47: Vibe coding is like hey how about

00:48:51: I have no value

00:48:52: for society?

00:48:53: I'm still waiting for Vibre research.

00:48:55: That's

00:48:57: my jab!

00:48:59: It will be the title of my biography.

00:49:04: So guys...I

00:49:06: go to Tenmoo and see what i can sell

00:49:09: And I'll read off the credits.

00:49:13: Thankyou very much for listening.

00:49:14: Currently, you cannot follow us on most socials.

00:49:18: And this is probably not going to change anytime soon because we all have decided to take time off and this doesn't count as taking time off if You do like our podcast though?

00:49:42: Intro, outro and ad music is by Plo.Sessions And this episode was probably produced

00:49:47: by me.

00:49:48: Alexander Until next time Bye bye

00:50:06: No, no.

00:50:07: You can do

00:50:11: it

00:50:26: better.

00:50:27: We

00:50:29: still need

00:50:38: them!