00:00:04: Hello and welcome dear listeners to the third episode of Reject & Resubmit.

00:00:10: As always, we are...

00:00:13: Fedeb?

00:00:14: Marco!

00:00:16: And myself Alexander broadcasting to you from Switzerland probably or definitely for the last time.

00:00:23: I have not managed to accumulate at least five hundred thousand francs on my account unless will be banished from this country forever.

00:00:32: To get us started and to get you a bit more acquainted with the hosts, we've abandoned The Quiz Show intro for less intellectually challenging exercise.

00:00:43: I myself have fallen into a rabbit hole around handheld gaming consoles which led to brief but intense exploration of retro gaming libraries just to bring me all way back to Skyrim again.

00:00:58: so I wanted to know from you, what are your guilty pleasures when you're not busy creating knowledge of thin air and what about them draws you in?

00:01:09: How is Skyrim Retro Gaming?

00:01:11: No that's what i'm saying.

00:01:12: Like all these... I got two retro gaming handhelds and it was legally downloading off course the ROMS The

00:01:26: ones that you own.

00:01:27: Yes, I was ripping them from all the consoles that i owned.

00:01:32: so thats what ive been doing and I briefly opened about two files only to realize I really want get back into Skyrim.

00:01:40: then just got a modded version of Skyrim and im back

00:01:46: in

00:01:47: my Steam Deck in the evenings.

00:01:52: But is it a new version?

00:01:53: They did like they recently published something new, right

00:01:56: that was the oblivion remastered.

00:01:58: I'm still waiting.

00:01:59: You know i'm so waiting until there's esteem sale of at least you Know seventy percent on that song.

00:02:05: That will be my next deep dive but for now It's always just keep coming back and then never finishing the main quest line And Maxing out on smithing and enchanting.

00:02:21: And then

00:02:22: not

00:02:23: just being bored, one shotting everything on the map... ...and having another half a year break to start all over again.

00:02:32: Seems pretty much like my academic career.

00:02:36: Maxing-out!

00:02:37: On smithin' and enchanting.

00:02:39: Cheesy lot of side quests along the way.

00:02:44: Yeah fuck the main quest.

00:02:46: Yeah, talking about guilty pleasures.

00:02:48: I ritual gaming where i think is also something right up my alley?

00:02:53: I am on this very empty Video streaming platform.

00:02:57: you might not heard about it but it's called youtube and

00:03:01: It was more

00:03:02: very Yeah, it's a great place to be.

00:03:05: And there is a YouTuber called Majula MAJUULR and he does a retrospective on the Ultima series from late eighties I think?

00:03:18: Every individual game talks about like three-and-a-half hours every detail of development history as the entire game, every detail.

00:03:28: But it's very chill is a very soothing voice and nice to watch rather listening while cooking.

00:03:36: so I would say that's a guilty pleasure of mine at the moment.

00:03:41: What's Ultima?

00:03:42: That's one key role playing video games series from US not Japan but the U.S.. Google it.

00:03:55: It's very pretty fundamental for role-playing.

00:04:02: Interesting, I don't know why... Maybe i've heard of that and

00:04:06: we are too young so..I never played as a kid either.

00:04:11: What platform?

00:04:12: What's that

00:04:12: on?

00:04:13: Alex,

00:04:14: fortunate enough there is a three point five hour video.

00:04:18: I'm sorry just watching it.

00:04:21: two hundred and twenty six episode long blind play through of Skyrim when i am not playing skyrim.

00:04:29: But Phillip like honestly...

00:04:31: When do you watch these videos?

00:04:32: You mentioned

00:04:33: cooking but then

00:04:35: how long are you cooking?

00:04:36: An hour?

00:04:38: Forty-five minutes to an hour!

00:04:41: How quick are your

00:04:41: cooking?!

00:04:43: I'm a very efficient when it comes to cooking.

00:04:45: It's like

00:04:46: fifteen minutes also,

00:04:47: but that is why my kitchen is full of gadgets.

00:04:49: Fifteen

00:04:52: or fifty?

00:04:55: Fifteen one

00:04:56: five.

00:04:56: Uncle

00:04:56: Benz's package rises in the microwave for three

00:04:58: minutes so... And then i am already efficient by let say its my down time and enjoy cooking a lot.

00:05:06: What your guilty pleasure Marco?

00:05:07: My

00:05:07: guilty pleasure No escaping!

00:05:11: I try too though.

00:05:13: Yeah, my guilty pleasures.

00:05:15: I think most the most guilty pleasure thing is cycling not doing it but also kind of Nerding around.

00:05:23: so watching Like first of all listening to cycling podcasts

00:05:28: by

00:05:28: people we feel like they have an IQ of fifteen or so.

00:05:34: Because yeah every single sentence does not make a single sense to me at least Not because of the use of jargon, but kind of I don't know misplaced sayings and stuff like that.

00:05:49: Yeah so this is my downtime And i really noticed That it needs zero to non IQ To follow.

00:05:57: But then also Like uh...I have to admit Especially now with the Tour de France coming up.

00:06:03: Sometimes one Of The three screens in front of me Is yeah showing cycling and in the back you hear this very calming rotation of a helicopter.

00:06:18: Sounds

00:06:20: to fall asleep too!

00:06:21: Yeah,

00:06:21: no that's I think my guilty pleasure... Are

00:06:27: there any?

00:06:28: are they just because we had two video game suggestions?

00:06:33: The

00:06:36: cycling manager.

00:06:38: Yeah, there really

00:06:38: is oh

00:06:39: my god It's a very German thing I think as well

00:06:45: Of course

00:06:46: it

00:06:47: and i have to admit the thing that I do over-the-winter swift where you put your bike on this Device That basically translating Your power input onto A video screen Is almost like a game.

00:07:00: so You spend time riding your bike with friends online in a Very Yeah, not beautifully animated world is also I guess the closest you can get to a cycling game.

00:07:15: But it's quite fun to be honest.

00:07:18: Pro-cycling manager twenty five mostly positive.

00:07:25: It's a cycling.

00:07:26: Oh my God!

00:07:29: Well we didn't manage... We tried to nudge Marco away from cycling but

00:07:35: apparently

00:07:36: That is too guilty of a pleasure to avoid.

00:07:41: So I will probably not put this stuff into the show notes so you'll just have to take notes on that.

00:07:52: Not sure how many YouTube channels are covering Ultima in three and half hours, but I apologize in advance.

00:07:59: Quite a few!

00:08:02: Then, you know just write Philip to his academic email address for the exact links and his most suggested episodes.

00:08:13: With that out of the way let's dive into this side content where we discuss a little bit about trials and tribulations

00:08:30: in

00:08:30: academia as an assistant, professor still.

00:08:34: Most of us

00:08:35: are... Still!

00:08:38: Some of us aren't.

00:08:39: who knows maybe some won't be by the time this airs but Philip I'm going to put you on a spot what we're talking about today.

00:08:51: So, I start with the topic of working in academia and... ...I have a question to you or more something that i want to discuss with you.

00:08:59: And this is working with your local faculty.

00:09:03: so how much do you feel?

00:09:05: That university pushes incentivizes and threatens to work with your colleagues directly at the faculty that are at?

00:09:18: How do you think about this?

00:09:19: Do feel that is a pressure put on to or see opportunity for it.

00:09:25: Or, the university you are at is just place of go-to and provides power to your computer beyond.

00:09:35: there's nothing to gain from it.

00:09:37: Working with faculty...

00:09:40: That's really good question!

00:09:44: If I may start like actually asked my supervisor or current now supervisor.

00:09:51: Whether this is something they do and back then she said yeah, it's not that people kind of wait for you know?

00:09:58: And uh... You have to discontinue every project did you bring with your?

00:10:04: because yeah as a turns out nobody.

00:10:08: Yeah, cat at all in a way.

00:10:12: Nobody waited for you

00:10:14: and I think this is something... At least from my environment that was socialized.

00:10:19: it's quite different because there given the German structure an institute where they work together closely also published together well over here.

00:10:29: i think this barely the case.

00:10:32: That's why I was kind of surprised at first, but now i started to appreciate and cherish it even because over the time more or less organically some ideas evolved.

00:10:44: And some did not... But that is totally fine!

00:10:48: To give you a concisor answer ...I would say I don't feel any pressure apart from pressures which am myself are making because I also feel like it's a nice way of connecting and bonding with the people, getting to know them better.

00:11:06: So...I try to initiate some projects again let-nowhere And some are hopefully becoming very prosperous and eventually well cited publications.

00:11:18: so in this regard i would say It is fruitful, but I guess you in my case.

00:11:27: i needed to be the one and a driver seat driving seat uh...to actually start and engage or started with this ideas and publications.

00:11:41: it's interesting because like now that institution they're going too.

00:11:47: I talked to few people And They all told me Actually its actively disincentivized To work together With faculty And it's not in the sense of that people tell you to work together, but the way your publication bonus is structured.

00:12:06: You need to share... Just for

00:12:07: school things?

00:12:08: Yeah!

00:12:10: You have to share if you co-author with someone at their institute and don't if they're co-authored by somebody else.

00:12:17: That's like an explicit you know, your act explicitly disincentivizing collaboration.

00:12:24: and apparently I mean this is just from talking to maybe two or three people.

00:12:30: they said that actually happens in the sense of that.

00:12:33: That people have come to this institution tend to bring their own network and don't really... You know there's not a lot university or departmental collaboration going on which yeah, I mean a bit different to what Marco said.

00:12:55: Which is kind of this German or Austrian system where...I'm not sure how it was with you but without even questioning whether that's okay and the integrity of things like i was told my publication at this institute as PhD needs be done together.

00:13:20: One of the postdocs or one of the assistant professors plus the supervisor will also be on it.

00:13:27: That's like, that's the way is and I didn't question it in that was just.

00:13:32: you know though with the weights done so you have i'm not sure what do.

00:13:45: better thing better way to go about this is, you know from like a high-level perspective as an institution.

00:13:52: Do want to incentivize internal collaborations or do you want to incentive external collaboration?

00:14:00: and what are the... I'm not entirely sure if there's any blanket best practice?

00:14:12: I think for us in our deposition that we're In it would be most beneficial if we could work with senior faculty at our place, right?

00:14:23: The feedback loops can extremely quick.

00:14:26: We are not coming from the same institution so our thinking should not completely alike and we can collaborate in a fruitful way.

00:14:35: So best thing that we do is build good research collaboration for senior faculty.

00:14:42: This is funny because I would actually say the exact opposite.

00:14:46: Ah, why?

00:14:48: When it comes to a time dimension... ...I think its also good to rely on network you're currently embedded in Because there people are reliable.

00:14:56: You know your aware of their upsides and downsides Capabilities And what they not so good at.

00:15:03: In this regard you way faster in producing stuff.

00:15:08: Yeah cause you wanna be careful Like.

00:15:10: i feel like You quickly get into kind of situations where you create perverse incentives.

00:15:20: An innocuous decision at the institution, I think it would be even if its same but an innocuous decisions to A make publication bonuses attractive so like makes them high enough.

00:15:33: that is actually attractive too.

00:15:35: see that as extra income.

00:15:37: and B But At The Same Time you know, say like oh yeah.

00:15:41: You'll have to share it if you do with someone at your institution.

00:15:45: this has kind of a very strong repelling factor.

00:15:49: actually where are you really think about?

00:15:54: should I... is that worth for me?

00:15:57: To start looking for collaborators inside the institution or should i just be investing my effort outside and vice versa as well?

00:16:05: If you're incentivizing collaboration that may quickly turn into a closed off institutions where people are just trying to get as many collaborations internally going and you're locking out any incentive.

00:16:24: I

00:16:26: feel a bit in different situation, so i'm not even sure whether we have financial incentives for publications.

00:16:31: Marco do you know that?

00:16:33: We don't have it now...

00:16:34: Yeah because i think we don't either!

00:16:37: So thats little out of the window..

00:16:38: For me its more that we are getting fired.

00:16:48: Or that you dont get reduced teacher air research time.

00:16:52: Okay, the whip instead of the carrot.

00:16:54: Yes

00:16:56: yes and for me it was more communication off to assess whether I'm a worthy person among the faculty.

00:17:05: they would also look at weather.

00:17:07: i At least create a few collaborations.

00:17:09: so i think They want To have at least with us in middle way where we Have like one or two projects also With with phd's at The Faculty And to give A little bit back uh, and the bulk of their research collaboration should be obviously outside but it's more like.

00:17:28: Communicated that's not incentivized or there is no structure around?

00:17:32: I

00:17:33: mean the part i mean the incentive is kind this similar though right.

00:17:39: so i'm not take like they're still an incentive there did set up as a punishment instead of the reward.

00:17:44: you have to publish in order too.

00:17:46: two you know heavy.

00:17:49: you don't want me not after teach fifteen courses.

00:17:54: And so, like I wonder if that incentivizes also some direction of research?

00:18:04: If maybe it's easier... Like you said, maybe this incentivizes internal collaborations more if Philip's assessment is correct and its kind of easier then to publish….

00:18:16: You know..if your working with colleagues within the department or institution or if that pushes you to come in with an existing network and say, You know what?

00:18:27: I need do my publications.

00:18:29: And honestly, like i can't risk starting anything with people...I don't know yet!

00:18:39: So yeah it's the same incentive to publish more say pressure.

00:18:54: But maybe beyond publications, how much is expected of you to be present during I don't know research seminars brown bags and so on as well?

00:19:06: There's also collaboration or to give feedback on internal seminars.

00:19:10: do You have a communication there?

00:19:13: me from what I heard.

00:19:15: So where i'm coming From that was kind of a more research oriented strong culture, being in research seminars and having people present their work during the semester where I'm going to...I'll have to see.

00:19:32: To be honest it's on your own self to do that.

00:19:51: I think it's also difficult because of the teaching and where we're teaching is pretty structured, so its hard even times across a larger department when everybody can actually take part in some kind.

00:20:12: If you want to be part of an exchange, You kinda have to make the effort to do so and if not going to be expected show up to research seminars.

00:20:23: Yeah I mean for me or us personally speaking um i don't know.

00:20:29: it's also about the benchmark your setting yourself because as im around at office most time just like right now people expect And I feel like for now it backfires in my spot, because if i'm not around people are sort of confused and wonder.

00:20:48: Is Marco okay?

00:20:53: But yeah regardless of that...I think we recently had a very nice an interesting similar debate in this interdisciplinary group where I am working.

00:21:03: The meetings are almost empty.

00:21:05: So I think it's a group, but you know that is the group of twenty people and we meet once a month And last time was like before of us and four of us being kind of the committee that is organizing their meeting.

00:21:22: And this is really something that kind of sucks in no way!

00:21:27: We were also discussing whether to stop doing hybrid meetings, for instance.

00:21:31: Because even there you have two people online and I don't know what they're doing but their certainly not actively engaging Skyrim watching some video games published in the eighties.

00:21:44: But no think this was something that we were discussing for quite sometime.

00:21:49: so maybe also relating to is how has it done at your current universities?

00:21:56: So if be there physically or could you also join virtually?

00:22:06: We have, I can always join virtually and we have quite a few seminars.

00:22:11: So sometimes they're overlapping.

00:22:14: so it's somewhat expected that not everyone is there but the variance is high.

00:22:22: i would agree with you.

00:22:23: if you tend to show up people start to expect.

00:22:26: On the other hand, I know that some people have never seen them in any seminar and they still exist.

00:22:34: It's also fine!

00:22:35: And i think it depends a little bit on how you want to be perceived... ...and how you perceive your own role in the faculty?

00:22:42: I want to present because.. ..I think is helpful for me to learn as well to attach social value to work we do.... To see what others can do give feedback.

00:22:53: But yeah That's

00:22:54: a problem.

00:22:54: I'm trying the tying that kind of back to this original question with us, you know do we collaborate internally externally?

00:23:05: It's also part... it is so difficult.

00:23:10: To get these things going because at Mind Institute for example where i am now You have a research seminar which is pretty disciplinary Where people from you know theoretical economists to people that are steeped in kind of institutional theory and see like ASQ and AMJ as the outlets of choice.

00:23:38: And,

00:23:40: You get these seminars sometimes where it just feels such a waste time because only two people in the audience actually care or understand what's being talked about, and eighty percent are just frustrated to be there.

00:23:57: And I still think...I'm still of a position that it is kind-of price you pay for serendipity That you need to endure some sessions where you can't really put your finger on what value this is.

00:24:17: But some of these sessions you just come out and realize like I would not have taken part, i would not met this people.

00:24:23: I wouldn't talk to the people who are engaged in this conversation if it wasn't quote unquote forced-to be there?

00:24:32: Yeah!

00:24:33: And so...I don't know for things that work.

00:24:35: hearing from what your been saying..and im pretty sure its same at every institution.

00:24:41: You kinda need someone senior.

00:24:47: just really force these kinds of things to happen, make a strong stand and forced people come because who shows up?

00:24:55: Who shows up are the people with highest incentive.

00:25:01: To search for connections or exchange.

00:25:05: that tends to be juniors what doesn't lead too much if you have room at most junior and people sitting together, basically talking about what happened last weekend.

00:25:19: So I think these kinds of research seminars or cross-departmental or even within departmental regular research seminars are probably something a necessary thing to get get like internal collaborations going within departments and institutes.

00:25:49: I don't think, or i don't know if it's a cause or an effect.

00:25:53: you now?

00:25:54: If its kind of people... Departments that are more cohesive working together also motivated to do research seminars.

00:26:03: doing research seminars gets departments to cross collaborate but im very sure there is strong correlation when it comes to these things.

00:26:16: I think research seminars we have to explore in its own topic section.

00:26:21: that's where we move on and...

00:26:24: Who is

00:26:26: next?

00:26:27: Alex,

00:26:29: you pick me!

00:26:33: Maybe a potentially contentious topic but one that i had pretty strong opinion of is

00:26:44: why surprise.

00:26:45: Yeah,

00:26:45: well I usually don't have strong opinions.

00:26:48: Why do we as you know organizational behavioral business whatever you want to call yourself researches?

00:26:54: Have to write these managerial or policy implications in our papers?

00:27:01: and i'm asking this because This may be totally naive for my part.

00:27:06: Don't explore.

00:27:08: You know papers outside of my field that much And I'm talking like really, you know in medicine or in physics or chemistry etc.

00:27:17: I am really talking outside but my impression is that they don't have to do that and i'm not just talking about natural sciences...I mean it'd be surprised if you find implications for policy from history of language researchers.

00:27:33: maybe naive.

00:27:34: take correct me if im wrong here?

00:27:39: I listened to, and I shared that episode with you from the This Is Research podcast where Brad Greenwood and Yang Jianyu kind of duked it out about what's the ultimate winner quantitative or qualitative research approaches.

00:27:55: Spoilers obviously quantitative but they...I found myself agreeing with Yan's position.

00:28:07: we are in no position to make these claims.

00:28:10: We aren't policymakers, we aren't managers... ...we haven't seen usually an organization or any form of policy-making.

00:28:20: reality in years plus.

00:28:23: which I also like is that no policy management decision should be based off a single research finding and it may contribute to, you know a lot of evidence.

00:28:36: But what we do is nearly never a basis for any kind of decision but more like combination results from our field should inform independently people that actually about the realities.

00:28:52: and so I long story short don't understand why have to this?

00:28:59: Understand journals think that this is necessary to you know, because I don't what they think if some practitioner will actually read this.

00:29:10: But i don't understand why we have to do this?

00:29:12: Why We Have To Spend The Last Day Before Submission Asking ChatGbt What Could Be Menagerial Regulations?

00:29:19: Wow!

00:29:19: What Take?

00:29:20: What

00:29:21: take?

00:29:23: What takes only?

00:29:27: Yeah...I would start just with a smaller point instead I agree with.

00:29:34: i think it's a format so time the results that you gained back to real life implications and considering how managers would translate dead into behavior.

00:29:50: It's just a format that translate the results into something else.

00:29:54: That has a broader implication.

00:29:56: it is not that you I think no one who writes these assumes, but someone takes result and then restructures their entire firm or kicks out to see your based on that?

00:30:06: But there this way of discussing how they stand relates back to the real world And i think thats an extremely helpful interesting exercise And it ties them back to discussions that are going on, not in academia but among managers.

00:30:25: So for me this is usually board decisions or kind of a CEO do we want have when?

00:30:29: Or what kind about structure do you prefer and what kind of risk settings?

00:30:33: so whatever there's an interesting exercise to go back to the To this and to think through what my results could mean for this kind of decision-making.

00:30:45: But that's not your job, you're expertise.

00:30:47: You are a researcher, research methods, theory, literature... ...you get some data and analyze it.

00:30:56: I think there is completely misunderstanding about management research.

00:31:01: If we do not understand the context then where in?

00:31:04: We aren't good researchers.

00:31:07: I understand that we are not consultants but if you cannot think through how this can, at least on the constructed situation.

00:31:18: Can affect decision making or should it effect?

00:31:21: Alex is gone!

00:31:28: He blacked out his camera and yeah i think then... You're doing your job right Because I think that you put yourself in a position That is too far detached from the context, which should be interested.

00:31:43: But...

00:31:45: You just mentioned it!

00:31:47: We're not consultants.

00:31:48: That's what consultants are for.

00:31:50: Journalists and people outside of our field reading our papers should do?

00:31:56: I don't understand why we need

00:31:58: to be... A consultant looks at one firm And tries to develop solutions with them.

00:32:05: This is what it means for businesses.

00:32:08: Section of a paper means in these kind of decision-making situations, please consider this results and that's not the same as consulting.

00:32:17: It's more pointing out.

00:32:19: if you run into these kinds of contextual factors Please do consider What we looked at?

00:32:26: And this how can be considered?

00:32:29: That's not consulting.

00:32:30: But if you cannot do that for your own paper, then you don't know what to talk about when I'm completely honest.

00:32:37: Marco?

00:32:38: Yeah i mean...I agree with both of you in parts and overall some of the fields we're referring are just different by nature like looking into history.

00:32:52: History is a subject in its own right, while we as I guess managerial researchers it was always kind of an application.

00:32:59: Right?

00:33:00: So It's the application of sociology psychology text studies and so on and so forth.

00:33:06: So i feel like We are in applied science even though we tried And that think That also.

00:33:11: you could also spin argument The other way around.

00:33:14: why do we have to write theoretical implications?

00:33:18: Because yeah, we are also an applied science in a way but we don't want to admit it.

00:33:23: So I feel like this limbo is trying to talk two audiences anyway.

00:33:29: having said that i totally also get the your point Alex that its... ...I think sometimes It IS artificial and im not sure whether would always argue that it's meaningful.

00:33:41: because if you write a conceptual paper then probably Yeah, writing that managerial implications might not be the smartest thing.

00:33:50: And again you can publish a broad array of stuff right.

00:33:53: so if your writer meta-analysis I would assume there are some practical applications to it.

00:34:00: but if you write yeah in conceptual paper

00:34:06: why bother?

00:34:07: But also an empirical paper and let's be honest here how much time do think people like us are spending on the managerial and policy implications compared to theoretical implications.

00:34:25: Yeah, but this is only a function of what's appreciated in our field right?

00:34:30: If I would publish an AMJ with great manjura implications i will spend way more time writing and thinking about menageria implications than i wouldn't be able to publish there.

00:34:41: that why i'm spending one more time on theoretical implications.

00:34:46: See, I don't think that's true.

00:34:47: Like from everything i heard this managerial policy implication part is just a dishonest exercise and also to you know jump maybe on the point that that Philip made it like.

00:35:00: we have to be experts And we have understand how our research fits into.

00:35:06: You know The context of what do call the real world which would argue?

00:35:09: Are we living in an art scholars?

00:35:12: not in the real World as are research not real but Generally like how much time have you spent in boardrooms and the last three weeks?

00:35:21: How much time of your spend like leading or managing a company understanding.

00:35:28: Now just kidding, no sorry yeah please continue.

00:35:30: so I'm

00:35:30: like

00:35:31: that

00:35:32: we did.

00:35:32: the fact of the matter is to do this stuff for doing an anti-do research part of it.

00:35:38: we're asked to read and understand how to rigorously analyze data for empirical researchers or think a lot about what has been done before.

00:35:49: We don't spend time in the context, I think it's extremely dishonest if you say well... If we don't understand our contexts then We shouldn't be writing papers at all.

00:36:06: Like if it isn't super easy for us to write truthful, useful managerial or product syndication.

00:36:12: so truth of the matter is we have no fucking idea.

00:36:15: Yeah but... At least this very specific topic.

00:36:19: So like in a field of OB If I know that abusive leadership leads higher turnover then i should point out and i should write Maybe look into kind of leadership programs that try to reduce abusive behaviors by supervisors and if you want to keep your workforce.

00:36:41: Yeah, but isn't?

00:36:42: it is not bloody ridiculous as well like doing a paper right?

00:36:47: let's take an example.

00:36:48: we're doing the paper where investigating abuse of leadership right?

00:36:51: You looking at this and find that abuse of leaders should turn over then recommendation is hey managers How about not being more abusive leaders?

00:37:05: Here's my managerial recommendation.

00:37:06: Two things, that is super lazy and we probably spent five minutes just sitting down thinking like how would non-academics be doing this?

00:37:20: it's so obvious like anybody that reads even the introduction of this paper just reached a result section.

00:37:26: you don't have to read the whole paper can come up with that kind of managerial implication.

00:37:31: yeah but an interesting material application is not stop being abusive assholes.

00:37:36: The implication is maybe two identify behavior or through the study identified behavior, something like micro-examples.

00:37:52: Something that you take out of it, which is interesting for others obviously was not a good example because it feels so tautological.

00:38:02: but what's the good measure?

00:38:03: But

00:38:04: that means managerial implications in most cases... I liked Markus' examples because literally this is what we see on papers right.

00:38:10: maybe move to another example.

00:38:12: I recently talked with a group of senior executives and told them about Philips paper.

00:38:18: And there I introduced him to this idea of mental models, and it was like... This is why i have a hard time working together with consultants because they had completely different understanding in the world.

00:38:34: They are in their fifties or sixties and thought that he would talk my bachelor students but for them it's super enlightening Because you can see things from different perspectives.

00:38:45: Yeah, I think that is an managerial implication in a way.

00:38:48: If you frame it and the right way...

00:38:51: But isn't what i'm saying?

00:38:53: That's also something that comes out in discussion or results section.

00:38:59: We have to put in policy recommendations

00:39:03: for my paper.

00:39:05: People

00:39:05: don't read the managerial

00:39:10: implications!

00:39:13: Yeah, something that

00:39:16: access

00:39:17: without buying the paper quote unquote.

00:39:23: So Alex I think your argument rests on two assumptions that i struggle with.

00:39:28: The first one is you see theoretical contribution and many bridge jury comp contribution as something fundamentally different.

00:39:37: And getting one thing might be even contradictory to the other, and I disagree with this wholeheartedly.

00:39:44: A good mergerial implication is a translated theoretical implication.

00:39:49: so if you do it well or have an interesting question in theory then you should not even have that contradiction there.

00:39:56: It's more of a way of translating it.

00:39:59: The second thing is that your complain about very bad mergeral implications written where.

00:40:04: just try to dumb down little bit try to write it a little bit fluffy.

00:40:10: That's also not what we argue for, right?

00:40:13: Obviously do you don't want to rely on the poorest example of the bunch?

00:40:18: but I think if you... If you think about like that and trying to translate interesting theory contribution towards more applied perspective then i think way, more leeway there to also have an interesting point.

00:40:36: And the second thing is look for Interesting Managerial Implications and they are quite a few out there... I'm looking at

00:40:46: some change

00:40:47: that

00:40:47: we don't know shit about The Real World or Not?

00:40:50: So Real World.. I completely agree with you!

00:40:54: Sometimes if you read these managerial applications paternalizing in a way so they're really and I think that we just need to be humble.

00:41:06: And yeah, why it's some suggestions?

00:41:08: That would Yeah there are based on our data and sometimes They might help.

00:41:16: i mean Just want to clarify don't?

00:41:18: I don't Think In general that I Don't have an assumption that these are two separate things not at all.

00:41:25: I don' t think thats how im talking about.

00:41:28: It is more of a case that it's.

00:41:35: look if we have an incentive to write proper useful managerial incentives the managers are actually interested in reading and be of an incentive do so.

00:41:46: I think he would have the capabilities to do.

00:41:48: so is what i'm getting at.

00:41:49: but at the moment, its just something like you have two tack on its treated as such most of the time.

00:41:57: and the fact of the matter is I challenge you to find me any, a handful of actual practicing managers or policy makers that read academic journals.

00:42:13: There is something they read which has managerial implications and those are called things like slow in review or Harvard Business Review where I'm not.

00:42:24: they don't do it that much anymore but their role was to do exactly that.

00:42:28: look this is an interesting piece of scientific research here will give you space.

00:42:32: To really like expand upon this talk two managers.

00:42:36: test this you know.

00:42:38: test if what u find in the paper is actually applicable to the quote.

00:42:42: unquote real world.

00:42:43: i just dont think that as it's right now managerial implications has a paragraph after theoretical contributions, fulfilling any purpose and anybody is taking it seriously.

00:42:56: And thus, It's just a frustrating exercise for us because you know we won't be taking it Seriously.

00:43:06: nobody takes it seriously Because We're not incentivized to do so.

00:43:09: Um...and So we end up with these you Know paragraphs which are Honestly most of the time like The example that Marco Just gave Is Like look we found bad behavior is Bad And here is an American results.

00:43:25: does managers?

00:43:25: how about you don't do the bad behavior anymore in your big company

00:43:29: that this serves a purpose.

00:43:32: Yeah, if you are I don't know HR executive and then you can actually quantify what you try to say.

00:43:38: so i found research backing up there but we actually observe it.

00:43:43: now i don't exit interviews for instance.

00:43:50: I like i dont know if thats being done?

00:43:55: And also, I don't know if you really need us to spell out the results as managerial implications.

00:44:05: Like, I do not how hard of an exercise it would be like... We have to careful in this sense that we have to translate stuff for managers or policy makers.

00:44:18: Most people can look at results at the sun not that maybe even result section but a good you know condensation.

00:44:29: we have to put into introductions in our discussion section where it says look we found this went up this one down this didn't do anything.

00:44:36: and then they can make their own managerial implications.

00:44:39: They don't need as some higher power explain to them look if this thing goes down, what is means for your generic company?

00:44:47: this is like a paragraph will be entirely different exercise.

00:44:55: if we were writing for these practitioner facing journals like where he had to be read more than one or two, you know paragraphs and the actually supplement our.

00:45:04: Our empirical findings with talking to actual managers an asking him that look is this something you found as well in a car?

00:45:13: have you tackled us?

00:45:16: I want to offer one more angle but think it provides value.

00:45:20: so if i've read your paper The major implication allows me as an academic reader to look at the results yet again from a different angle, right?

00:45:28: So this allows maybe also understand them better and offers me ways to implement that into my teaching.

00:45:36: To implement that in two conversations I have with practitioners.

00:45:40: so... Maybe it is not truly aimed at practitioners but it's aimed at academics which informs how these might relate teaching to their graduate teaching or two.

00:45:55: stuff that is going on in the real world, real-world quote unquote.

00:45:59: And and there's one advantage of it allows the authors to think through their results from a different angle?

00:46:08: I think they're valuing.

00:46:10: maybe i would agree with the notion that this value was underutilized.

00:46:14: yeah but don't thing.

00:46:17: that result form should be polish it or to get rid of it.

00:46:21: It's more.

00:46:23: let's do better ones and have a conversation about what makes the good managerial implication, policy implications are very little experience with but that would make some good medial implication in having more discussion as field about how we can do this?

00:46:38: I don't know.

00:46:39: i still think if you want really well If you really want to make meaningful, like something that is meaningful for managers they can look at and understand.

00:46:51: I think there's space in outlets where this is an extra exercise because i just don't see how our managerial implications can be anywhere close as rigorous or empirical unless we spend time actually engaging with this with a context and really using that as well to really provide empirical.

00:47:20: Okay,

00:47:20: we don't

00:47:23: want one last thought.

00:47:25: looking back at the many projects of my PhD did all kind of linger around then don't go anywhere once they're really don't know any where.

00:47:33: Other ones that where I could not answer the question in a sense of sensible way what would be a major implication?

00:47:41: and the one is that i think that.

00:47:43: Progressing faster with the once that i find interesting to wants that i can make people interested in other ones where it can also make an interest case.

00:47:52: why you couldn't be relevant for up for practitioners to know that?

00:47:57: so, Being able to formulate an interesting medjool implication is also maybe just a function of, Is it interesting research?

00:48:04: Yes or not.

00:48:06: And I think that's the exercise we should go through and sit down Think it through and if he doesn't click in.

00:48:13: If we can even come up with a fuck sorry, the damn story where?

00:48:17: We can tell.

00:48:18: imagine us being at a party meeting one of our consultancy friends again And trying to tell them what we are doing and make an interesting student and if you're unable To do so maybe their research question is not that interesting?

00:48:30: Hmm well I guess.

00:48:33: so i mean I'm still gonna stick to my

00:48:40: opinion.

00:48:41: We

00:48:41: should just stop pretending like we can actually do this in a meaningful way, but...

00:48:47: Maybe you should get better at understanding the context that we work on?

00:48:50: That's

00:48:51: also an implication for sure!

00:48:52: But i don't want more work and less works.

00:48:56: Let me start a podcast.

00:49:00: You know if my family gets taken hostage They are held at gunpoint by you, Marco and said they will only be freed if we do ethnography.

00:49:11: I'll probably think about

00:49:13: it.

00:49:16: Depends on the part of family!

00:49:21: But keep updated with that... We still got an entire topic as usual.

00:49:30: I believe you have a last surprise that i don't know what it's about.

00:49:34: Just kidding, um so i think it also relates to your topic philip as well because i was wondering whether you have... As an academic again you have to resettle in quite many ways and most likely not only once but twice.

00:49:54: And what I noticed also talking to more senior academics that moved on quite a lot of times is, you always kind of lose some roots in the way.

00:50:03: You have to start building new social ties later.

00:50:07: and while this has been discussed now for the academic realm... ...I was wondering how do stuff like that in private realms?

00:50:20: Come to a new city.

00:50:21: In your case, Alex it will be Barcelona and in your case Philip it was Utrecht.

00:50:27: how do you spread your wings and fly?

00:50:29: or?

00:50:29: How do you find people to hang out with?

00:50:34: Yeah so I think the worst thing is that what everyone says is true And this is that you need to do stuff and through hobbies, get friends.

00:50:49: You have to ask people whether they want a hangout with them which feels weird but if you don't know anyone then invite them few times for beers or something like that.

00:51:03: You might not be hanging out in your home town But if you go through that process and have some confidence in it, the eight months or nine months later.

00:51:16: You'll have a small friend circle again And having some trust in that helps.

00:51:22: That will work out.

00:51:24: yet Again I want

00:51:24: to ask like A follow up question Like how?

00:51:30: In your opinion How do you value new friendships Or new social ties versus you know, fostering your old friends.

00:51:44: Because that's something I had with this kind of question when coming here... ...I made a conscious decision to just ignore everybody who is here where

00:51:58: i am

00:51:59: and put all my effort in making sure the friend have been with me for long time Neglect them because I felt like i can't do both.

00:52:11: I

00:52:11: can take a very unhealthy thing to be on.

00:52:15: for me personally it would, what's the very unhealthy?

00:52:18: I need local contacts and only if its a few and now have one person four running in cycling.

00:52:29: Yeah, but we also only see us not that often.

00:52:33: That's basically...

00:52:34: Marco is also traveling more than I am home.

00:52:37: so no it doesn't make sense But he's travelling a lot and i'm home more.

00:52:42: So yeah And have one person for talking in music and the other person as well running and cycling and of Marco and that's extremely important.

00:52:51: and this The only thing that Gives me feeling off-home here that I have people that are could reach out to.

00:52:59: Yeah, and I mean yet again.

00:53:02: I don't see that much of a tension there.

00:53:04: with contact with friends i mean There's some tension but not too much And this is almost no cost involved with meeting a friend Locally once the week for beer and then meeting another friend on The weekend.

00:53:19: it's like in total six hours or what?

00:53:23: Yeah, but so I totally get also Alex point.

00:53:27: But it gives you the feeling of being.

00:53:29: there is some tension i think because You cannot...I mean..you can only have So many social ties in a way and that I guess our time And our mental capacity are sort-of limited right?

00:53:43: Because my decision was like I want to cherish the people that have been in my life through this time and also having moved around a lot.

00:53:58: And, i wanna make sure that capacity of time for social contact is really prioritizing.

00:54:07: um...my old friends even if it means like locally..I don't have anybody to be honest.

00:54:16: Um....and I know vice versa A lot of old friends for better or worse.

00:54:24: I don't know where when i have moved somewhere else and done the flip kind is that going to move to vienna decided like look, I want a reconnect with my local friend's and this just means it might at best be able too to keep up with one or two people that are not in my you know local vicinity.

00:54:49: and thats basically exactly what happened.

00:54:51: i've got like, I lost all contacts.

00:54:55: To do my friends from abroad apart form two people um... And yeah think that's a good thing.

00:55:02: there is attention there.

00:55:03: it depends on like.

00:55:05: also thinking depends on the structure of your social circle.

00:55:09: if u have If you've got one best friend or two best friends that stick to, no matter what.

00:55:15: I don't think there's a lot of tension because... You'll find time whenever every few weeks you catch up but if you have like a friend-

00:55:23: But how much value do you attribute?

00:55:26: I only know German term.

00:55:28: Quaintances would be in English term.

00:55:30: Bekannte That you just hang out with from time to time.

00:55:34: How many values derive form it Do being able call someone and say hey!

00:55:40: Think.

00:55:40: I thought so honestly, I think I thought.

00:55:43: I don't need that at all.

00:55:45: Like I thought you know?

00:55:46: I thought I do not Like having acquaintances and I get nothing from acquaintance.

00:55:53: waste of time.

00:55:55: Very good.

00:55:56: That's a very easy way to get friends.

00:55:58: just go to them until I get Nothing for that.

00:56:01: literally

00:56:01: our incentives are stacked against you.

00:56:04: I will

00:56:05: forget about me within five minutes after I've left this This country but it was truly like I felt all I need is good true connections even from abroad and I get nothing for my acquaintances.

00:56:19: And it turns out, I think i might have miscalculated because yeah...I'm pretty damn lonely here like lonely in a way where this can't be fulfilled by you know having regular calls or even online meetings with friends away.

00:56:41: It's the thing that I am wondering now.

00:56:44: Hey, I think i shouldn't do this anymore.

00:56:47: Like even if it's frustrating and to even know that probably these people you meet now That you go out for a beer as soon as you change to another job They won't be in your life again.

00:56:59: But I'm wondering of my kind of cynical view Of just saying well What's the point of putting any effort into this?

00:57:06: In the first place is misplaced because...I do think that backfired little bit from me and really taking this radical, you know I've got...I don't want to waste quote-unquote time on acquaintances.

00:57:20: i wanna put all my time into mine.

00:57:21: But

00:57:21: it'd be fair if there would have been your shoes that were pretty much the same

00:57:25: as yours?

00:57:26: You always

00:57:26: had these kind of temporal lens right so it was not permanent And in disregard like yeah again Philip mentioned it already.

00:57:37: So It takes seven eight nine months or at least for me I guess a year or so, where could like develop at least some social ties.

00:57:47: And i think i would not have bothered that all if it was for one of two years

00:57:53: and maybe...i think..I would still try to get like one on two friends outside the university Where we can have conversations beyond publication processes and faculty gossip.

00:58:10: Why would you do this to yourself?

00:58:14: There's no value.

00:58:16: Where is the publication

00:58:19: in that?

00:58:23: Yes, exactly!

00:58:31: I used to do that, and probably you did as well when you were in semesters abroad or we're doing a master's degree.

00:58:46: That wasn't the perspective one had.

00:58:48: Yeah

00:58:49: everyone is on the same show.

00:58:51: But it was different going

00:58:53: after each other.

00:58:54: Everyone also kind of open to meet new people because just like with very young building ties Within the faculty, I felt like nobody would be out there open to go out for a beer because they are already settled.

00:59:08: They live their lives and it's just... It is not the same!

00:59:13: And i have to be honest here..I was sort of naive in this regard Because I thought that it will pretty much be the same but turned out it wasn't at all

00:59:32: at least from my learning.

00:59:36: now what I do is that guy, i'd also follow phillips recommendation as you know.

00:59:45: obvious it's but kind of stuff with people.

00:59:51: Just go to a magic tournament local one

00:59:56: and something like this exactly.

00:59:58: so getting into more social nerd hobbies beyond skyrim that I can actually do in person and just talking to people, not seeing this as another kind of transitionary period where it's not worth a single iota or effort.

01:00:18: because what is the point of acquaintances?

01:00:22: For our listeners we are three new friends.

01:00:27: I mean friend is a bit

01:00:36: strong.

01:00:40: I'm never going to play a cycling manager.

01:00:46: What's Marco ever

01:00:48: gonna do?

01:00:51: No, yes we are.

01:00:52: We're not new Friends.

01:00:56: kind of know

01:00:57: who

01:00:58: will not screen.

01:00:59: you said with three new friends.

01:01:02: Yeah That is no what who?

01:01:05: sorry for our for listeners trying to wrap up the episode and wanted you set up a stage but.

01:01:14: Do you have another segment coming up?

01:01:16: Oh,

01:01:16: yes.

01:01:16: Thank you for reminding me.

01:01:17: now that we've come to the end of this segment and other bonus content.

01:01:21: um That you will be waiting for.

01:01:23: is today's episode being brought to you by home appliances?

01:01:27: And do you thought that distinguishing between chat gbt-o three and chat gbd four o as a pain in the ass?

01:01:33: Try figuring out whether the Samsung Smart RB three four C six oh two.

01:01:38: DSA slash EF or The Samsung smart RB three eight C six Oh five.

01:01:45: DS nine slash E F will keep your cottage G sufficiently cool.

01:01:50: As a matter of fact, there are currently one hundred and twenty-one fridge models in media max Spain And they're naming conventions aren't really giving me panic attacks.

01:02:00: I'm generally always against government overreach and over-regulation, but I will fully support including more than two digits in any kitchen appliances name as a criminal offense.

01:02:10: So send LG and Samsung and Bosch or whoever else customer support emails only containing the subject line desk reject.

01:02:20: to return them the favor And that's my.

01:02:24: would

01:02:24: then refer to our prior.

01:02:26: Uh, podcast

01:02:27: exactly and then they will have to listen to our podcasts.

01:02:30: And we get more listeners and would get more managerial.

01:02:33: you know are managerial implications better?

01:02:35: because we'll get invited to all these companies too.

01:02:38: You know help

01:02:40: sure and you will find some acquaintances there.

01:02:42: I will get new friends in Korea on China and everybody's happy Especially me and I get a free new fridge, which is basically the whole thing.

01:02:51: Why did this?

01:02:53: So you prefer the IKEA approach of Billy on bongo and blim-blums?

01:02:58: Yeah,

01:02:59: yeah.

01:02:59: honestly compared to RB three eight C six oh five DS nine slash EF i would preferred my my fridge to have Swedish.

01:03:09: That's

01:03:09: still the number I think, because there are several editions of a Pax for instance and you never know which Pax it is.

01:03:17: so... Oh!

01:03:20: It makes a difference.

01:03:22: like last advice before we close this episode

01:03:25: The new Pax models

01:03:26: are insane Because by yourself You don't need a second person if you do not have an acquaintance.

01:03:43: But there you go, why would you get a previous Pax?

01:03:46: Why does it need models?

01:03:47: what's the reason for you to get a Pax too compared to Pax I For example?

01:03:53: anyway all right That's a good point.

01:03:58: I forgot.

01:03:59: um

01:03:59: i've got that report.

01:04:01: and And to not make you suffer any longer.

01:04:06: Thank you very much for listening.

01:04:08: currently as before and is in perpetuity, You will not be able to follow us on much of the socials unless we get a grant and this won't change.

01:04:17: probably.

01:04:18: if do like our podcasts go hit subscribe on Spotify an overcast or podcast another podcast than any app that has cast As their last letter?

01:04:27: I'm pretty sure most Samsung fridges can now download your podcast player of choice.

01:04:33: So also subscribe, you're grandparents and parents on their fridge And get them all the newest episodes on time.

01:04:41: They love it!

01:04:42: Entering out to music and add music is by Blue Dot Sessions.

01:04:45: This episode was probably produced By me, Alexander Straub.

01:04:52: We don't know that.

01:04:53: Maybe an AI will produce It at a time I'll get fractured.

01:04:57: Bye bye everybody

01:05:02: So.